The Johan Santana saga will be looked back upon and thought of in one of two ways: as the day the Yankees finally changed their ways and began investing in young talent, or the day the Yankees let the best pitcher on the planet get away. Either way this is clearly a turning point for the franchise. In years past the Yankees would have backed the truck up and given the Twins whatever they wanted for Johan - Hughes, Kennedy, Tabata and how about Joba too? This is clearly a new Yankee era - the Post George era.
We have three top prospects that will determine our season in 2008 and they will be determining a lot more - how the franchise is run from here on out. If they flop, permanent damage could be done to the 'build from within' strategy that Cashman has been preaching. Let's say they turn out to be mediocre, and also the 'bullpen by a committee of prospects' fails, the George will come out in Hank. Hal will no longer be able to control him and with over $60 million + coming off the books after 08 there will be nothing from stopping an old fashion George-like shopping spree. Once again the Yankees could end up an old, expensive, passionless team made of high paid mercenaries.
However, if the big three turn out to be legit players and contribute to Yankee success this year with promise of more, the whole dynamic of the team changes. The Yankees can then spend excessively on free agents that fill a spot of weakness - say a Mark Texiera for first base - and still maintain a young core that plays with passion and allows for some roster flexibility. Instead of watching the Giambis and Kevin Browns of the world play out the end of their overpaid contracts, we can see Austin Jackson and Humberto "The Dirty" Sanchez try and make their mark. Also, without the burden of large contracts you can have open competition and if a player cannot perform someone else will be given a shot. If you have a pitcher that is making $20 million dollars a year he is going to get a spot, even if we all know he can't handle it (see Brown, Kevin and Vasquez, Javier).
So the Johan watch and the fact the Yankees walked away (I guess the deadline was legit after all) is a clear turning point in Yankee history. Now while it might take more then a year to really know if it was the right move, expect the Steinbrenners to make up their minds based on this year entirely. So as we watch the big three this year, remember you are not only rooting for them to succeed and this year's pennant, you are rooting for the future make of the franchise.
Showing posts with label Johan Santana. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Johan Santana. Show all posts
Friday, February 1, 2008
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Mets Land Santana, The Johan Watch is Almost Over.
USA Today is reporting that the Mets and Twins have completed a deal that sends Johan Santana to the Mets in return for Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.
The deal is, of course, dependant upon the Mets coming to a long term deal with the 28 year old Santana.
This is good news for Yankee fans. We will be neither sending The Messiah to Minnesota, nor will we have to hear the incessant Johan rumors any longer.
Judging from what the Twins ultimately got for Johan, it appears as if Bill Smith VASTLY overplayed his hand. I believe that the package the Mets are giving up is far inferior to what both the Yanks and Red Sox were reported to have offered, and to what the Twins could have gotten around the winter meetings.
Rotoworld had this to say:
It's a pretty disappointing day for Twins fans.
Both packages being discussed by the Red Sox and Yankees during the winter meetings seemed more attractive to us.
Carlos Gomez and Deolis Guerra are big-time talents, but Gomez lacks plate discipline and might not fit in the top half of the lineup and an awful lot could go wrong before Guerra even sniffs the majors.
Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber are third starters at best and probably more like fourths.
It's a whole lot better than losing Santana for draft picks next winter, but we'd have taken a Phil Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury package over this.
Another question is why the Twins wouldn't accept a package centered around IPK and Ajax instead of the Mets package? I'm sure once The Messiah was taken out of the equation that Cash would have been happy to talk about just about any and everybody else in the farm system. The package that we suggested of IPK, Horne, Melky and Tabata is FAR superior to what the Twins got...how did Bill Smith screw this up this bad?!?
On one hand I would have loved to get Johan as long as we kept TM and Joba, but more importantly I am happy TM will be here for years to come. Johan will be an absolute monster in the NL for the next 5-7 years; Phil will be a monster for the Yanks, however, for the next 10-15 years...kudos to Cashman for pushing Hank into this decision, and kudos to Hank for listening.
The deal is, of course, dependant upon the Mets coming to a long term deal with the 28 year old Santana.
This is good news for Yankee fans. We will be neither sending The Messiah to Minnesota, nor will we have to hear the incessant Johan rumors any longer.
Judging from what the Twins ultimately got for Johan, it appears as if Bill Smith VASTLY overplayed his hand. I believe that the package the Mets are giving up is far inferior to what both the Yanks and Red Sox were reported to have offered, and to what the Twins could have gotten around the winter meetings.
Rotoworld had this to say:
It's a pretty disappointing day for Twins fans.
Both packages being discussed by the Red Sox and Yankees during the winter meetings seemed more attractive to us.
Carlos Gomez and Deolis Guerra are big-time talents, but Gomez lacks plate discipline and might not fit in the top half of the lineup and an awful lot could go wrong before Guerra even sniffs the majors.
Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber are third starters at best and probably more like fourths.
It's a whole lot better than losing Santana for draft picks next winter, but we'd have taken a Phil Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury package over this.
Another question is why the Twins wouldn't accept a package centered around IPK and Ajax instead of the Mets package? I'm sure once The Messiah was taken out of the equation that Cash would have been happy to talk about just about any and everybody else in the farm system. The package that we suggested of IPK, Horne, Melky and Tabata is FAR superior to what the Twins got...how did Bill Smith screw this up this bad?!?
On one hand I would have loved to get Johan as long as we kept TM and Joba, but more importantly I am happy TM will be here for years to come. Johan will be an absolute monster in the NL for the next 5-7 years; Phil will be a monster for the Yanks, however, for the next 10-15 years...kudos to Cashman for pushing Hank into this decision, and kudos to Hank for listening.
The Johan Watch Day 100
Buster Olney has an meaningless article today. He stateson ESPN.com today ;
Executives involved in the Johan Santana trade talks expect the Minnesota Twins to make their decision soon, perhaps as early as Tuesday..
Catches your eye huh? Decision could come today! The saga is finally over and we can all move on with our lives! Quickly, lets move on...so how are we going to work through the innings issue with the big three? Is Wang going to get signed to an extension?...Wait a second, not so fast. Later in the article;
The Twins could weigh the offers and decide to keep Santana into spring training, in the hope that a more aggressive market for the left-hander develops.
So the decision to not make a decision could come today? Thanks Buster for the breaking non-news.
Update: Ok, Buster looks better since a decision was made today but can he not hedge by saying they will decide whether to keep kim through Spring Training? If you think you have a story have the guts to say so.
Executives involved in the Johan Santana trade talks expect the Minnesota Twins to make their decision soon, perhaps as early as Tuesday..
Catches your eye huh? Decision could come today! The saga is finally over and we can all move on with our lives! Quickly, lets move on...so how are we going to work through the innings issue with the big three? Is Wang going to get signed to an extension?...Wait a second, not so fast. Later in the article;
The Twins could weigh the offers and decide to keep Santana into spring training, in the hope that a more aggressive market for the left-hander develops.
So the decision to not make a decision could come today? Thanks Buster for the breaking non-news.
Update: Ok, Buster looks better since a decision was made today but can he not hedge by saying they will decide whether to keep kim through Spring Training? If you think you have a story have the guts to say so.
Monday, January 28, 2008
The Johan Watch Day 99
So the Johan Saga has now entered it's 99th day of active rumors. Nothing that comes out at this point can can really be trusted but in the intertest of full disclosure the Twins are saying the Johna situation will be resolved within ten days. Buster Olney is reporting that John Lester is off the table and the Mets feel used.
I still believe firmly that Johan will eventually be in pinstripes. The Yankees have a abundance of pitching prospects and two good CF prospects(one of the Twins biggest holes) so a deal should doable. However, when things are drawn out this much I wonder if the pressure mounts on Sanatana kind of how it smothered Randy Johnson and set unreal expectations. People will expect Johan to be worth all of this attention and if he stuggles early it could be ugly.
I still believe firmly that Johan will eventually be in pinstripes. The Yankees have a abundance of pitching prospects and two good CF prospects(one of the Twins biggest holes) so a deal should doable. However, when things are drawn out this much I wonder if the pressure mounts on Sanatana kind of how it smothered Randy Johnson and set unreal expectations. People will expect Johan to be worth all of this attention and if he stuggles early it could be ugly.
Monday, January 14, 2008
The Santana Watch Day 85
Ok, now we can't even go a full day without conflicting Johan reports (and The Hank opening his big fat mouth). First ESPN was reporting that the Yankees had pulled their offer off the table and were officially (for real this time!) out of the Johan sweepstakes. Then the story that was posted on ESPN.com quickly morphed into;
TAMPA, Fla. -- New York Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner has not closed the door on a trade for Minnesota Twins left-hander Johan Santana, despite reports to the contrary.
"It's still in the deciding process," Steinbrenner said Monday night outside Legends Field at the Yankees' spring training complex. "We're still discussing it. There's still a little talk back and forth."
The Twins really have no choice but to deal Santana and if they wait till the season starts his trade value will only decrease. However, they continue to try and wait the Yankees out.; they want one more top prospect and I bet they get it.
TAMPA, Fla. -- New York Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner has not closed the door on a trade for Minnesota Twins left-hander Johan Santana, despite reports to the contrary.
"It's still in the deciding process," Steinbrenner said Monday night outside Legends Field at the Yankees' spring training complex. "We're still discussing it. There's still a little talk back and forth."
The Twins really have no choice but to deal Santana and if they wait till the season starts his trade value will only decrease. However, they continue to try and wait the Yankees out.; they want one more top prospect and I bet they get it.
Sunday, January 13, 2008
The Santana Watch Day 84
So the Mets also seem to think the Twins asking price is too high for Johan;
"The two teams continue to talk and word out of Minnesota yesterday was that, yes, the Mets could snare Cy Young Santana for the right price, but as far as the Mets are concerned, that five-for-one deal is not the right price. "
I have stated this again and again - Johan will end up in the Bronx and Phil Hughes + will be on their way to Minnesota. Its just a matter of time. So we wait and wait and wait.....
"The two teams continue to talk and word out of Minnesota yesterday was that, yes, the Mets could snare Cy Young Santana for the right price, but as far as the Mets are concerned, that five-for-one deal is not the right price. "
I have stated this again and again - Johan will end up in the Bronx and Phil Hughes + will be on their way to Minnesota. Its just a matter of time. So we wait and wait and wait.....
Saturday, January 12, 2008
Joba and Johan
The Daily News has an article headlined "Joba Chamberlain may start next season in bullpen for Yankees " but the headline does not jive with the content. Cashman is non-committal to any strategy other then preparing Joba as a starter;
"We're going to prepare him as a starter and we see him as a starter," Yankee GM Brian Cashman said yesterday. "But we have an innings limit that he won't exceed. How we manage the innings limit remains to be seen. The plan is to have him start, but there are a number of scenarios that we'll review."
A non-story.
Also, there is now talk that the Yankees are out of the Johan sweepstakes and this comes a week after Hank said the Yanks were still in it. So now the Red Sox were about to make a deal, then they were the clear leaders, then Johan was not going to be traded, then the Yanks were the leaders and now they are out of it with the Mets in the lead. Got it? Ignore all the talk until something happens. I still say he ends up in the Bronx.
"We're going to prepare him as a starter and we see him as a starter," Yankee GM Brian Cashman said yesterday. "But we have an innings limit that he won't exceed. How we manage the innings limit remains to be seen. The plan is to have him start, but there are a number of scenarios that we'll review."
A non-story.
Also, there is now talk that the Yankees are out of the Johan sweepstakes and this comes a week after Hank said the Yanks were still in it. So now the Red Sox were about to make a deal, then they were the clear leaders, then Johan was not going to be traded, then the Yanks were the leaders and now they are out of it with the Mets in the lead. Got it? Ignore all the talk until something happens. I still say he ends up in the Bronx.
Monday, January 7, 2008
Santana Trade - Comparing the offers
I found a great article by Aaron Gleeman comparing the two packages(Red Sox & Yankees) on the table for Santana.;
Those packages are relatively similar in terms of overall value, so unless other teams get heavily involved the Twins' choice may ultimately come down to picking between Hughes, Ellsbury, or Lester as the deal's centerpiece.
He continues
Toss in immediate success as a big leaguer and that's about as good as it gets for a pitcher who won't turn 22 years old until a couple weeks before the 2008 All-Star game. As I wrote two months ago when discussing Hughes' inclusion in various early Santana rumors, short of cloning Francisco Liriano or convincing the Mariners to part with Felix Hernandez, Hughes represents the best chance the Twins have of replacing Santana with an early-20s pitcher capable of being a true No. 1 starter.....
On to Ellsbury
Ellsbury fills an immediate need for the Twins and looks like a relatively sure thing to become at least a good player, but his ceiling is seemingly along the lines of Lofton or Johnny Damon. Hughes' ceiling is that of a true ace who could literally replace Santana at the top of the rotation in time, but he'd add to what's already an area of strength for the Twins and there's more risk that he'll flop completely whether because of injuries or performance.
So it basically comes down to higher risk higher reward for Hughes or low risk low reward for Ellsbury. Gleeman wraps it up by saying;
..they'd be smart to go after the one player who clearly gives them the best chance to come away from the Santana deal with a superstar. In other words, Phil Hughes.
Exactly my sentiments, the twins need to get an impact player for Santana and Ellsbury projects at best to be a complimentary player, not a superstar. I still believe that Johan will be a Yankee I just hope it happens soon so we can move on with our lives.
Those packages are relatively similar in terms of overall value, so unless other teams get heavily involved the Twins' choice may ultimately come down to picking between Hughes, Ellsbury, or Lester as the deal's centerpiece.
He continues
Toss in immediate success as a big leaguer and that's about as good as it gets for a pitcher who won't turn 22 years old until a couple weeks before the 2008 All-Star game. As I wrote two months ago when discussing Hughes' inclusion in various early Santana rumors, short of cloning Francisco Liriano or convincing the Mariners to part with Felix Hernandez, Hughes represents the best chance the Twins have of replacing Santana with an early-20s pitcher capable of being a true No. 1 starter.....
On to Ellsbury
Ellsbury fills an immediate need for the Twins and looks like a relatively sure thing to become at least a good player, but his ceiling is seemingly along the lines of Lofton or Johnny Damon. Hughes' ceiling is that of a true ace who could literally replace Santana at the top of the rotation in time, but he'd add to what's already an area of strength for the Twins and there's more risk that he'll flop completely whether because of injuries or performance.
So it basically comes down to higher risk higher reward for Hughes or low risk low reward for Ellsbury. Gleeman wraps it up by saying;
..they'd be smart to go after the one player who clearly gives them the best chance to come away from the Santana deal with a superstar. In other words, Phil Hughes.
Exactly my sentiments, the twins need to get an impact player for Santana and Ellsbury projects at best to be a complimentary player, not a superstar. I still believe that Johan will be a Yankee I just hope it happens soon so we can move on with our lives.
Friday, January 4, 2008
The Santana Watch Day 74
Tyler Kepner has a piece in the times today echoing a line we have heard before;
Hal Steinbrenner would try to do it with the existing payroll of roughly $200 million. Hank is more inclined to add Santana, largely to keep him away from the rival Boston Red Sox.
On the surface this seems reasonable, 200 million is already a ton of money. But Johan is signed for 13 million for next year and the year after Pettitte, Abreu, Giambi and Farnsworth come off the books which will reduce the payroll by over 60 million dollars. Also, the new stadium revenue could boost already sky high revenues significantly. So the financial question really only applies to 2008 and are the Yankees really going to nix trade for baseball's best pitcher over 13 million?
Hal Steinbrenner would try to do it with the existing payroll of roughly $200 million. Hank is more inclined to add Santana, largely to keep him away from the rival Boston Red Sox.
On the surface this seems reasonable, 200 million is already a ton of money. But Johan is signed for 13 million for next year and the year after Pettitte, Abreu, Giambi and Farnsworth come off the books which will reduce the payroll by over 60 million dollars. Also, the new stadium revenue could boost already sky high revenues significantly. So the financial question really only applies to 2008 and are the Yankees really going to nix trade for baseball's best pitcher over 13 million?
Sunday, December 23, 2007
The Johan Watch- Day 63
The latest bit of Red Sox propaganda comes from Nick Cafardo;
"Since the winter meetings, nothing has changed with Boston's offer, but after the New Year things are expected to get down to the nitty-gritty, when Minnesota will expect the Yankees and Red Sox to give their final "best offer." ..... If the Yankees don't include Ian Kennedy, the Red Sox will land him. "
If the Red Sox have not improved their offer why would Minnesota suddenly feel it is good enough? He cites no sources, even anonymous ones. This is a gut feeling Boston-centric statement, ignore it.
"Since the winter meetings, nothing has changed with Boston's offer, but after the New Year things are expected to get down to the nitty-gritty, when Minnesota will expect the Yankees and Red Sox to give their final "best offer." ..... If the Yankees don't include Ian Kennedy, the Red Sox will land him. "
If the Red Sox have not improved their offer why would Minnesota suddenly feel it is good enough? He cites no sources, even anonymous ones. This is a gut feeling Boston-centric statement, ignore it.
Thursday, December 20, 2007
Your Johan Fact of the Day
Johan Santana had a 3.33 era last year, his worse performance since 2001. The last Yankee to start 30+ games and have a better era was Mike Mussina in 2001. As the Hank says today in Newsday about the Cashman;
"He'll [Cashman] tell me that one day he wakes up and wants to do one thing, and the next he wakes up and wants to do the other thing," Steinbrenner said, "and I'm kind of the same way. I think that we're not exactly panicking thinking that we have to have anything at this point, but it's still a possibility. He's a great pitcher, and it has to be seriously considered."
I feel the same when I see statistics like this I want to make the deal but the thought of the holy trinity dominating for 10 years makes me hesitate.
"He'll [Cashman] tell me that one day he wakes up and wants to do one thing, and the next he wakes up and wants to do the other thing," Steinbrenner said, "and I'm kind of the same way. I think that we're not exactly panicking thinking that we have to have anything at this point, but it's still a possibility. He's a great pitcher, and it has to be seriously considered."
I feel the same when I see statistics like this I want to make the deal but the thought of the holy trinity dominating for 10 years makes me hesitate.
Wednesday, December 19, 2007
Santana Saga Nearing an End?
The Pioneer Press is reporting there might finally be a resolution to the Johan sweepstakes;
"Boston remains firm, though, as initially reported by the Pioneer Press, in offering just Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. The Red Sox are adamantly opposed to substituting Jacoby Ellsbury for Crisp, and that's the current holdup.
Regardless, there's buzz that the Santana trade could be made within days.
Boston has a larger pool of players who interest Minnesota and can contribute to the Twins immediately, whereas many of the New York Yankees' top prospects are at least a season or two away from succeeding in the major leagues. The Yankees remain firmly opposed to trading pitchers Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy together for Santana, and they certainly won't trade Joba Chamberlain."
I have said all along and I still think it, the Yankees will get Sanatana and Hughes, Kennedy plus 2 players will be on their way to Minnesota.
"Boston remains firm, though, as initially reported by the Pioneer Press, in offering just Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. The Red Sox are adamantly opposed to substituting Jacoby Ellsbury for Crisp, and that's the current holdup.
Regardless, there's buzz that the Santana trade could be made within days.
Boston has a larger pool of players who interest Minnesota and can contribute to the Twins immediately, whereas many of the New York Yankees' top prospects are at least a season or two away from succeeding in the major leagues. The Yankees remain firmly opposed to trading pitchers Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy together for Santana, and they certainly won't trade Joba Chamberlain."
I have said all along and I still think it, the Yankees will get Sanatana and Hughes, Kennedy plus 2 players will be on their way to Minnesota.
Sunday, December 16, 2007
Johan Santana to Yankees, Crawls Along
The Johan Santana saga has gotten to the point were it is almost as annoying as the Randy Johnson to the Yankees talks. Anyway, there was a big of news out of team Hank. First, two of the three won't be traded according to The Hank;
"I am not giving up two of the three," Steinbrenner said of Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Hughes, the Holy Trio of the Yankees' pitching-rich organization. "That's not going to happen."
Wait so Joba is one the table? I hope that is not the case and this is just an off the cuff comment that doesn't mean Joba is a possibility.
Second, moving Matsui would increase the vigor with which the Yankees went after Santana according to the Newark Star Ledger;
"A person who has spoken to Minnesota management and asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak for the team said the Yankees told the Twins they would get back into the Santana talks if they can shed the contract of left fielder Hideki Matsui"
So now we wait for this painfully long saga to play out.
"I am not giving up two of the three," Steinbrenner said of Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Hughes, the Holy Trio of the Yankees' pitching-rich organization. "That's not going to happen."
Wait so Joba is one the table? I hope that is not the case and this is just an off the cuff comment that doesn't mean Joba is a possibility.
Second, moving Matsui would increase the vigor with which the Yankees went after Santana according to the Newark Star Ledger;
"A person who has spoken to Minnesota management and asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak for the team said the Yankees told the Twins they would get back into the Santana talks if they can shed the contract of left fielder Hideki Matsui"
So now we wait for this painfully long saga to play out.
Saturday, December 15, 2007
Johan Deal STILL Won't Die
Not that is a shock but the Johan sweepstakes continue and the Yankees are very much involved. I have written here before that, in the end, I think Johan will be a Yankee and that they will give up what I consider to be too much. I also fear with the steroids report hitting the Yankees hard they will try and act fast.
But perhaps the biggest concern from the recent news that the talks were not dead were the following Hank quotes;
"I'm still thinking about it."
"That's something that I'll have to decide,"
If there was any doubt there shouldn't be anymore, Hank is the new boss same as the old....
But perhaps the biggest concern from the recent news that the talks were not dead were the following Hank quotes;
"I'm still thinking about it."
"That's something that I'll have to decide,"
If there was any doubt there shouldn't be anymore, Hank is the new boss same as the old....
Wednesday, December 12, 2007
What the...???
Ok, I am officially ticked off. Why is it that the Yanks have to offer not just a little bit more, but A LOT more in trades than do the Red Sox in order to get the same players? The Johan thing is a perfect example...we offer Hughes, and they want Jackson and Kennedy too. They are supposedly 'close' with a package centered around Jon Lester and Ned Lowrie. Well, seeing as how Phil Hughes has been the #1 pitching prospect in baseball for the past 24 months, Lester must be da man, huh? Let's take a look at their minor league numbers side by side -
Lester has 6 seasons minor league experience to Hughes' 4.
Age -
Lester - 1/7/84 - 24 on opening day
Hughes - 6/24/86 - 22 on opening day
W/L
Lester - 32-31 in 102 games started
Hughes - 25-8 in 53 games started
ERA
Lester - 3.33
Hughes - 2.03
K's/9
Lester - 8.31
Hughes - 10.18
BB/9
Lester - 3.78
Hughes - 2.16
HR/9
Lester - 0.56
Hughes - 0.20
Hits/9
Lester - 7.99
Hughes - 5.56
The numbers go on and on and on! Hughes is a potential ACE; Lester is a potential #3 (AT BEST!). It's not even close!
Some might then say, "Lowerie is going to be a great player, and that makes the Sox' offer as good if not better." Lowrie is a career .291 hitter with ZERO power (20 HR in 3 years). The Yanks were prepared to give up Melky Cabrera who in 3 MAJOR LEAGUE seasons has a .275 average and 15 HR. The argument that Lowrie has more upside is crap too; they are both 23 - Lowrie was born April 17, 1984, and Melky is a whopping 116 days older (Aug. 11, 1984). Melky has stats in the majors that are almost identical to Lowrie's in the minors! Assuming Lowrie hits AAA pitchers better than major leaguers (gee, ya think?), this tilts hugely in favor of the Yanks' offer as well.
So what the hell? Why is it that the Yanks have to offer SOOOOO much more than the Sox to get the same player back?
An argument could (and should!) be made that the most comparable offer the Yanks could make to the Sox' offer of Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson (23, 3.74 era in 2 minor league seasons)would be:
*Alan Horne (AA pitcher of the year, at least an equal to Lester, probably better)
*Melky (better, younger, with more upside and cheaper than Crisp)
*Alberto Gonzalez (24 yr old SS who hit .304 @ SWB last yr - a plus glove with upside, comparable to Lowrie)
*Russ Ohelndorf (a more major league ready pitcher than Materson).
When you compare offers this way it is obvious why the Yanks pulled out...why should we get so totally fleeced when the next best offer is far less than ours?
Hank - hold tight! Johan is good, but if the Twinkies really liked the Sox' offer more Santana would be in Boston already!
Lester has 6 seasons minor league experience to Hughes' 4.
Age -
Lester - 1/7/84 - 24 on opening day
Hughes - 6/24/86 - 22 on opening day
W/L
Lester - 32-31 in 102 games started
Hughes - 25-8 in 53 games started
ERA
Lester - 3.33
Hughes - 2.03
K's/9
Lester - 8.31
Hughes - 10.18
BB/9
Lester - 3.78
Hughes - 2.16
HR/9
Lester - 0.56
Hughes - 0.20
Hits/9
Lester - 7.99
Hughes - 5.56
The numbers go on and on and on! Hughes is a potential ACE; Lester is a potential #3 (AT BEST!). It's not even close!
Some might then say, "Lowerie is going to be a great player, and that makes the Sox' offer as good if not better." Lowrie is a career .291 hitter with ZERO power (20 HR in 3 years). The Yanks were prepared to give up Melky Cabrera who in 3 MAJOR LEAGUE seasons has a .275 average and 15 HR. The argument that Lowrie has more upside is crap too; they are both 23 - Lowrie was born April 17, 1984, and Melky is a whopping 116 days older (Aug. 11, 1984). Melky has stats in the majors that are almost identical to Lowrie's in the minors! Assuming Lowrie hits AAA pitchers better than major leaguers (gee, ya think?), this tilts hugely in favor of the Yanks' offer as well.
So what the hell? Why is it that the Yanks have to offer SOOOOO much more than the Sox to get the same player back?
An argument could (and should!) be made that the most comparable offer the Yanks could make to the Sox' offer of Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson (23, 3.74 era in 2 minor league seasons)would be:
*Alan Horne (AA pitcher of the year, at least an equal to Lester, probably better)
*Melky (better, younger, with more upside and cheaper than Crisp)
*Alberto Gonzalez (24 yr old SS who hit .304 @ SWB last yr - a plus glove with upside, comparable to Lowrie)
*Russ Ohelndorf (a more major league ready pitcher than Materson).
When you compare offers this way it is obvious why the Yanks pulled out...why should we get so totally fleeced when the next best offer is far less than ours?
Hank - hold tight! Johan is good, but if the Twinkies really liked the Sox' offer more Santana would be in Boston already!
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Johan Trade Talks Continue
From the Star Tribune;
"While no deal appeared imminent, there were indications that in their talks with the Red Sox, the Twins were focused on a package headlined by center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury.
Meanwhile, the Twins' talks with the Yankees remained dormant. According to a person close to the talks, Yankees lefthander Kei Igawa was one of several players the sides discussed last week, along with righthander Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera. "
The first thing this tells me is the Yankees and Twins are clearly still talking. Nobody brought Kei Igawa's name up last week so this is clearly a new development in the talks. Also, the Red Sox thing still looks like propaganda to me. The Twins are throwing out there the one piece that the Red Sox have that trumps the Yankee offer, Ellsbury, in a ploy to make them increase their offer. If the talks were "centered" on Lester then the Yankees could be confident their offer was better since Hughes is clearly the better prospect. In the end, I have a feeling Hughes, Melky and Kennedy will be gone and Johan will a Yankee. I hope I am wrong.
"While no deal appeared imminent, there were indications that in their talks with the Red Sox, the Twins were focused on a package headlined by center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury.
Meanwhile, the Twins' talks with the Yankees remained dormant. According to a person close to the talks, Yankees lefthander Kei Igawa was one of several players the sides discussed last week, along with righthander Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera. "
The first thing this tells me is the Yankees and Twins are clearly still talking. Nobody brought Kei Igawa's name up last week so this is clearly a new development in the talks. Also, the Red Sox thing still looks like propaganda to me. The Twins are throwing out there the one piece that the Red Sox have that trumps the Yankee offer, Ellsbury, in a ploy to make them increase their offer. If the talks were "centered" on Lester then the Yankees could be confident their offer was better since Hughes is clearly the better prospect. In the end, I have a feeling Hughes, Melky and Kennedy will be gone and Johan will a Yankee. I hope I am wrong.
Saturday, December 8, 2007
Red Sox-Twins Games Continue
Right after we hear the door is not slammed shut on Sanatana suddenly Buster Olney reports the Red Sox and Twins are close to a deal;
"It'll get worked out," said one evaluator. "It might not be tomorrow, but sometime, it's going to get worked out. It's close enough, and there are enough ways to bridge the gap [between what the Red Sox have offered and what the Twins want] to make it happen."
I might be proven wrong here but I am not buying that Johan ever ends up in Boston.
"It'll get worked out," said one evaluator. "It might not be tomorrow, but sometime, it's going to get worked out. It's close enough, and there are enough ways to bridge the gap [between what the Red Sox have offered and what the Twins want] to make it happen."
I might be proven wrong here but I am not buying that Johan ever ends up in Boston.
Johan Deal Won't Die
Yesterday we get word the Yankees were tryign to unload Matsui, possibly to clear some salary and then today the Ny Post is reporting Hankdestein is back tracking on his ultamatum;
"While Hank Steinbrenner acknowledges that he hasn't slammed the door on a potential blockbuster deal for Johan Santana, several possible trade chips the Twins might want are "as close to untouchable as you get," the Yankees' senior vice president said Friday."
Jeez, and I thought this guy said no more interviews?
""Like I said, I feel I have a duty to let our fans know as much as I can with their team, although sometimes I do go too far," he admitted. "In the respect of being the front guy, that's gonna slow down now. This is my last interview."
Guess not.
"While Hank Steinbrenner acknowledges that he hasn't slammed the door on a potential blockbuster deal for Johan Santana, several possible trade chips the Twins might want are "as close to untouchable as you get," the Yankees' senior vice president said Friday."
Jeez, and I thought this guy said no more interviews?
""Like I said, I feel I have a duty to let our fans know as much as I can with their team, although sometimes I do go too far," he admitted. "In the respect of being the front guy, that's gonna slow down now. This is my last interview."
Guess not.
Thursday, December 6, 2007
Matsui to Giants?
Apparently the Yankees are talking about trading Matusi to the Giants, maybe for Noel Lowry. Can anyone think of any reason the Yankees would want to unload some salary and pick up another young pitcher? This Johan Santana thing just won't die....
The New York Fan Myth
A constant reason given for the lack of patience of New York franchises is the fact that the fans simple won't accept rebuilding. Apparently we are too stupid and impatient to allow for a team to do something for the future and we will forever turn to some other passion like bowling or canasta. It is the excuse the Knicks give for Isaiah disaster and the Rangers for years used it as an excuse. Now there is some truth to the fact that fans won't show up to games if the team sucks. We won't, but that makes us no different then any other city. However, after the Johan non-trade the fan reaction should show that we are smarter or at least more patient then we are given credit for. I ran into two polls one on River Ave Blues and this one on newsday.com
Both are landslide victories in favor of keeping the kids and not getting Johan. Meanwhile the move has been killed in the press by the Bergen Record , the Post, and Peter (Theo’s Secret Lover) Gammonds said he thought the Yankees would change their stance after the backlash of negative publicity. Hank apparently missed that backlash. He mentioned about the positive feedback he has gotten from the fans;
Both are landslide victories in favor of keeping the kids and not getting Johan. Meanwhile the move has been killed in the press by the Bergen Record , the Post, and Peter (Theo’s Secret Lover) Gammonds said he thought the Yankees would change their stance after the backlash of negative publicity. Hank apparently missed that backlash. He mentioned about the positive feedback he has gotten from the fans;“They’re the ones that buy tickets and watch the YES Network. I like the way they get attached to homegrown Yankee players, just like the rest of us do in ownership and the front office. I was actually kind of surprised. But the fans seem to be in favor of keeping Hughes, and that’s a good thing.”
What is clear is the PRESS are the ones who can't handle a little youth movement. They want the big trade and the big flop ala Randy Johnson, it sells. The fans on the other hand are more intelligent then that. We can and will wait for our team to do things the right way. So please can everyone stop saying us New York fans won't tolerate smart baseball decisions like investing in youth ? This is the one thing I think the Johan situation should prove once and for all.
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